Make podcasting pay 💰
Why we need to disclose salaries—and how to get what you’re worth
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When I started this newsletter, my goal was to only feature jobs that listed their salaries. That has been much harder than I expected. There’s growing demand for pay transparency in audio, but it seems many employers are lagging behind — and plenty of job opportunities still don’t reveal up front what they pay.
Since I’m transitioning into audio from print/digital journalism, I wanted to speak to someone who knows about this stuff in the radio and podcasting world. Producer Ellen Rolfes caught my attention when she shared her salary during a webinar, so I got in touch to ask a few questions about pay transparency in the industry...
How transparent are radio/podcast employers when it comes to pay?
In my experience, most media companies are not transparent, especially as you move away from the lowest paid / most junior positions. And they have good reason not to be. If they don’t tell you how much they can offer, you’ll often accept less than they’ve budgeted. Think about it like a consumer: if you could get a better price for the same cup of coffee, you would go for the deal, all other things considered equal? I think we all get it in theory, but in practice, it sucks when you are the employee that is gotten on discount.
I once applied to a podcast producer position and when they emailed me for an interview, they told me the salary, which was $8,000 less than I was making at my current job. On the one hand it was refreshing that they told me at an early stage of the interview process. On the other, the job description and experience level they were looking for were not in line with the salary they were offering. I could read between the lines and see that the company had unrealistic expectations about what their money could get. I probably wouldn’t have applied if I had known what they were offering.
Why should companies share salaries when posting jobs?
Because we won’t waste each other’s time if our ideas (or needs) about salary aren’t in sync. In general, it will also help with eliminating some of the most egregious pay inequities that exist in our industry, especially for women of color.
Transparency also comes from unionizing efforts. When I worked at a media organization that was in the process of unionizing, we found that in some parts of the company, there were pay discrepancies for people with the same job and similar levels of experience. In some cases, the difference in pay was in the tens of thousands. It was pretty egregious for a company that espoused high-minded values. It made me realize just how important it is for these conversations to happen and to become commonplace.
If companies are truly committed to diversity and inclusion, pay equity will exist at the company. They will already have conducted a pay equity study. If they aren’t up to the task, then unionized shops can collectively force their hand.
Should producers share their own salaries?
Companies should make pay transparent, but they don’t, and I’m not willing to wait for them to make a dent in pay equity. Each individual has the power to make a difference by speaking up about their own salary. So absolutely, I believe that producers should share their salaries in their networks and with their colleagues. It’s uncomfortable at first to start the conversation, but we all benefit, especially those who have historically been underpaid, from breaking the silence around money.
It’s especially important when you are applying for jobs, because you will have the most negotiating power when you start employment with a company. It will be harder to negotiate big raises once you are already an employee.
When I’m applying to a job, I usually try to reach out to a current or past employee at a similar-level position. I’m searching for red flags about an employer: I ask how many hours they work, whether they’re expected to answer emails in the evenings or weekends, what the bosses are like, general culture stuff, etc. I also ask them if they’d be willing to share what they make; what they were offered when they first started working there; and about the benefits.
When people have been frank with me, it has helped me negotiate better terms. So I pay it forward and do the same for others, especially for other women in media.
What about sharing freelance rates?
I agree that sharing freelance rates is good, though I will say that they fluctuate a lot more than salaries. I’ve been paid as little as $25 for a tape sync (when I was just starting out 10 years ago and didn’t know any better) to $70 an hour recently for podcast production (on a grant-funded project).
My day rates have been anywhere between $200 and $450 for production work in photography, radio and video. I won’t accept a tape sync that is less than the rates established by AIR [see below] and when I see anyone post for less, I make it a point to reply and say that these rates are below industry standards and that they should be paying more. Friends of mine will establish nonprofit rates versus commercial rates.
I am a huge believer in retainers (being paid a set amount every month, regardless of the work done) after being burned a few times on long-term projects where they said I’d be working a certain number of days a week and then having it be less than that, since I had to reserve that time and turned down jobs as a result.
Everyone has their own way of setting freelance rates, but my easy calculation is to reserve 30% for taxes, 10% for healthcare and then the rest is my ‘take home’ pay. So my freelance rates should (ideally) be 30-40% higher than if I were an actual employee.
Ellen Rolfes is a multimedia producer with experience across broadcast news, radio, podcasts, live events and more. She’s currently a documentaries producer at Newsy, where she produces short docs and explainer videos.
Other pay resources
👉 What Podcasting Pays Now: 2019 pay survey carried out by Werk It.
👉 Real Media Salaries: crowd-sourced Google doc of actual salaries.
👉 Misha Euceph made the still-unusual decision to publish pay data for her studio Dustlight Productions. She talks openly about that decision in this great interview with On Air Fest.
👉 AIR Rate Guides: guidance on how to set your day rates as an independent.
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What I’m listening to
I’ve been delving into the BBC series Ecstasy: The Battle Of Rave, which is about the history of MDMA and acid house in the UK. A lot of the antics are based in Manchester, the city I’ve lived for longest in my life, so I’m feeling this weird mix of nostalgia, homesickness and an overwhelming urge to go clubbing. Oh well, maybe next year… 🤞 Believe it or not, I need more podcast recos: what’s in your queue at the moment?
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