No is a full sentence 🔕
How to set boundaries in audio
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Clients disrespecting your time … making impossible demands … not understanding what your job as an audio producer actually involves … sound frustratingly familiar? These are issues a lot of us have probably come up against in this industry.
One producer has come up with a solution in her own work by setting clear boundaries — and making them public. Sarah Myles is an award-winning podcast producer based in the UK. She has this page on her website that caught my attention. It’s called How I Work. Here’s how it starts…
“As someone who is lucky enough to be in demand as a producer, I have decided to set some personal working boundaries. I hope that by having these conversations with clients that they will become more normal and that those who don’t have the privilege of turning down work are able to discuss boundaries without fear.
Here are some things you should know when working with me….”
These are a few of my personal faves from Sarah’s working boundaries:
“I often go for walks when I take calls and encourage you to get outside too, there are some really nice cats out there.
As I work across several genres of podcasts, I take half an hour of cognitive switching time when going from one project to another.
I believe in a quality product but also a quality production method, it’s important to me that everyone behind the scenes feels happy, respected and included.
I work a four day week.”
I chatted to Sarah about why she published her boundaries publicly, how she manages several projects at once, and why no podcast is worth compromising her mental health for.
Why did you decide to publish the “How I Work” page of your site?
In 2021, two major changes happened in my professional life. 1) I was getting asked to make more podcasts than ever and 2) I was dealing with things in my personal life that made me realise I can't work endlessly without serious consequences. I think in this industry there can be an attitude that everyone should just be grateful and do anything to keep the work but I figured if I had enough clients coming in anyway, why not try and get people to reconsider that way of thinking by setting boundaries around what I will and and won’t do?
Talk me through some of the guidelines / boundaries you felt most strongly about including – and why they matter to you in your work as a producer?
I think if clients are happy to accept that I have boundaries in the first place, it’s a big green light. Then within that, shows must be both diverse in their guestlist, and inclusive for everyone involved (listener included!). That means working around illness and/or disability too.
As a producer it matters because no podcast is worth compromising my mental health for. I have OCD and PTSD; both of these are impacted if a client decides they are going to start blowing up my phone late at night or demanding impossible deadlines. It can be really awkward when I have to explain this to them, as they’re really misunderstood illnesses and can often be dismissed so instead I just set my boundaries.
The boundaries read as though you have a really clear self-awareness of your optimal working conditions. How did you develop that knowledge of when and how you do your best work?
Lol, I don’t wanna name names in this because everyone makes mistakes and it doesn’t mean they can’t change, but around the start of the pandemic I went through a really bad phase where I basically wanted to quit audio. I thought I was a bad producer because I couldn’t constantly jump from one type of podcast to another and be available to zoom at any moment. I had someone complain that I wasn't passionate enough about audio and it really hit me hard. I took time off and read into why I wasn’t able to do this: I thought everyone could just be available and was doing this. It turns out the brain can not do this and I wasn’t a bad producer, I was just exhausting myself.
How do clients respond to your boundaries?
I love my current clients. They are honestly some of my favourite people. A lot of them got in touch because they liked the boundaries page and I’m definitely passionate enough now!
An added bonus is I get paid what I ask, not having to prove my worth and negotiate my life away to get a standard rate.
Did you have any concerns about reactions to the page? Were there any negative reactions?
To be honest, no. I’m sure people have been put off by it but they haven’t contacted me, which is the reaction I was hoping for!
I find that setting boundaries is one thing, protecting and maintaining them is another! Did you have any problems with that in the beginning, and how did you hold yourself accountable?
Never mind at the beginning, I still do! It’s a constant process. You can’t go from someone who says yes to everything and puts podcasts ahead of their own health to someone who can create and hold boundaries guilt free. I’ve had a lifetime of feeling guilty about prioritising myself, it’s ongoing!
It is a lot about making sure you stop and take a moment before agreeing to things; don’t just say yes, don’t go into autopilot. Autopilot is what got you exhausted in the first place! Also forgiving yourself when you do mess up.
When someone emails you, they get an auto-reply containing details about when you check your inbox and how they can deal with various queries, depending on whether they’re a new or prospective client. How does it help to set these clear expectations for clients?
So, you know how a lot of companies don’t have humans you can talk to for help? I wanted a version of that but that wasn’t infuriating. I get a lot of the same questions in emails and the people who send the emails don't want to burden me, they just want an answer so why not make it easier for all of us and go through some FAQs and their solutions? People can now book calls with me, get podcast advice and even book an edit job without waiting around for me to respond {ie by using tools like Calendly}.
What factors do you bear in mind when choosing whether to work with a client?
They need to respect me and my boundaries from the get go then I usually suggest doing a trial to see how we get on. Sometimes a client can be a genuinely lovely person who respects your time etc but you may not have the same sense of humour or idea on what sounds good etc. And that's where I need to make a decision on whether I'm the right person for the job.
How do you manage multiple podcasts at once?
I've never not worked on multiple podcasts, so I guess practice. All the things you’d expect: to do lists, Trellos… I think being honest with your clients about the other projects you’re working on is good too, they'll be more likely to understand why you may not be able to reply some days.
Do you think freelance audio/podcast producers are particularly at risk of being exploited or taken for granted, as compared to other industries?
I’ve worked in kitchens before, so no! I think there are things that you need to be aware of as a producer like sometimes clients genuinely have no idea what goes into the process and you shouldn’t feel pressured into accepting the deadlines they set based on their limited knowledge. Explain the process so they know; you’d be surprised how much this can change things.
What’s your advice for audio producers managing multiple clients and wanting to set clearer boundaries?
I feel like everyone wants to set more boundaries in their life tbh, including the client. Trying to get a client or person on the team to show their human side (so it's them and not a person-who-works-for-a-brand talking) and laying out the reasons you need these things is easier said than done but is a good way to go about it. You could even ask them their boundaries and then give yours back so it’s not just you. If clients are really resistant to your happiness then it's time to look for new clients!
I think if you’re working with a team to being aware of their boundaries helps. I exec things now sometimes and there’ll be occasions where I catch myself on the verge of sending emails checking that producer is doing the work they said they’d do. That's more of me feeling nervous at that moment thing and nothing to do with their ability so I think twice before hitting send (I never hit send and the work is always done!).
Follow Sarah @tweetsarahmyles. Sarah also runs Rise and Shine, an audio maker community to help open the door of the audio industry to anyone, regardless of income.
I’d love to know how you approach setting boundaries at work — let me know by commenting below, dropping me message or tweet 💟
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What I’m listening to
Been diving into a few new shows over the past couple of weeks…
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