Relearning the past 📻

Colonial and political history, told by the young people it affects most

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There’s a moment in episode four of the new podcast Fear of Missing Out that really caught me off guard.

An interviewee is explaining that in Northern Ireland, the motorway [highway] stops in Coleraine, a Protestant town, and doesn’t continue on to Derry, a largely Catholic town.

It took me aback not only because it’s wild to think that sectarian politics could still affect something so basic as infrastructure — but also because I grew up travelling those roads: how had I not put two and two together?

That’s kind of the point of Fear of Missing Out. To shine a light on the bits of history we don’t know or talk about enough. Also, it’s presented by 16- to 21-year-olds living in the UK. Over six episodes, FOMO delves into the history of British colonialism, media reporting of queer communities, the police, segregated education in Northern Ireland, British activism and Scottish politics.

It’s made by multi award winning audio producer Jesse Lawson.

A bit about Jesse’s background before we jump in: Jesse used to be a youth worker, and they now run a community interest company called Boldface, which makes audio principally with young people. In 2020 Jesse produced VENT Documentaries, a series made in collaboration with Vice that saw young Londoners tell their stories. Their audio practice is rooted in representation and co-production.

Show artwork by Tobi Malomo

How do you feel now that Fear of Missing Out is released?

I’ve been working on it for a year, so it’s really nice to have it out in the world. It’s also hilariously well timed in terms of this week [Jesse and I spoke during the week that Queen Elizabeth II died]. They’ve literally been talking about how amazing the Queen’s relationship with Africa was. The propaganda at the moment is really dark. So it’s quite nice to have an episode about colonialism come out at this particular time in the media landscape.

How did you come up with the idea for the show?

I did history at university – and I also went to university in Scotland. That was one of the first times that I became acutely aware that what I had learned in [high] school [in England] was very different to what my Scottish friends had learned at school. 

The way you tell the story of history is hugely important and can be incredibly misleading or biased. There’s always an agenda to the way history is told. 

When I was making VENT, I had a lot of conversations with young people where they said they didn’t feel like they have the critical thinking tools to make their own decisions about what they’re learning. That’s become increasingly important and relevant in terms of thinking about, for example, the most recent Black Lives Matter movement. A lot of people are starting to do their own research. 

The idea of the show is that it’s meant to be another tool in everyone’s toolkit to think about these things. Each episode’s show notes has a further reading resource. The aim wasn’t to do comprehensive or linear histories. The idea was more, here’s some stuff - how do we feel about it? Where can we go from here?

And given the way you’ve worked in the past and that you enjoy working with young people, it made sense to have the show presented by young people. 

Yes. If it’s for young people, it’s good for them to be part of the production process. And the show is primarily for young people, but it’s also a nice way to get adults engaged as well. 

How did you get funding for the show?

Through an incredible fund called the Audio Content Fund, which is actually on hiatus at the moment. The way that that fund works is: you come up with your idea - and then you can either partner with a commercial radio station or you can form a network of community radio stations, which is what I did. So I reached out to community stations and [they promised] to broadcast the work if it was funded. So then I was able to apply to the fund saying ‘I have x number of stations [behind me]’. 

Talk me through the process of how you worked with the young people. 

We knew that we wanted it to be a representative group of young people from across the UK. So once I had the funding, I found people through lots of different avenues like youth groups, through social media call-outs. 

And then I did a bunch of pre-interviews, telling them the six episode topics and asking which interested them most. Those conversations then really shaped the more minute detail of each episode. 

What else were you listening for during those pre-interviews – what were you looking for in your hosts?

I’m trying to think about how to answer that in a professional way … because the first thing I want to say is kind of like, vibes?! 

Some of the most successful bits of tape that I’ve ever got from any presenter, not just from young presenters, is when a presenter is doing an interview, and can live react to what’s happening – so is able to say, Oh, that reminds me of this thing. Or like, Oh, that makes me sad for this reason. That’s where you get the most natural and relatable bits of tape for listeners. 

I tried to have a range of people – some were super confident already, which is great. But that’s [only] one type of person so other presenters were less confident to begin with. 

What I told the presenters was you’re the go-between– between who we’re interviewing and the listener. If you don’t understand something, the listener won’t either. So you need to say you don’t understand. They didn’t need to have any [prior] knowledge, but I was looking for young people who knew why [they wanted to participate] and what they wanted to get out of it. 

So what were some of the reasons they wanted to be a part of the show? 

It was a range. Halima in episode three had done a history degree and is a journalist now, so has an active work-based interest. This was a cool opportunity for her to build on that experience. 

Others had never done anything like this before and thought it would be really fun – different to what they’re doing at school. 

Each episode centers the presenter’s background. For example in episode two, playwright and performer Felix, who came out as trans when he was 14, explores the history of how queer people have been presented in the UK media, to try and contextualise how trans people are spoken about in the media today. Tell me about the decision to use the hosts’ experiences as a way into each topic. 

My favorite type of documentary to listen to is when there’s a personal angle. Also we’re up against it a little bit because history is not the sexiest thing. 

People think that the more specific you are, the less relatable it is, because it’s only one person’s experience. But I actually think the more you lean into personal stories, the more listeners can relate to it. Because they might not have had the same experience, but they will have felt the same feelings at some point.

What was the process of training the young folks in audio making?

We ran a presenter training which was mainly around interviewing - as that was one of their main roles in the show. I tried to make it as fun as possible. We [explored] how to ask questions, closed vs open questions, how to make contributors [interviewees] feel comfortable. We did a lot of roleplay; I pretend to be Nicola Sturgeon, I pretended to be a policeman. That training was mainly about confidence. 

They’re paid as presenters and I’m the producer. So [after the training] I worked out the narrative arc of each documentary and found the contributors. For the interviews, I made a little brief. Then we’d meet before the interview – it was all online due to the pandemic - and we’d put all our questions together in a Google Doc. Then we’d do a practice round. The interviews themselves were led by the young people. 

I then put all the stuff together and made a bare bones script. Then the second training was around voice over. 

What was the most challenging part of the whole process?

Making sure the tape was useful and entertaining, but not trying to do it all – being selective was quite a challenge. 

These are big topics that people have a lot of opinions on. One of the things we did to make sure we were doing the right history storytelling was to have a historical consultant for each episode – a historian who’s actively working in that field. 

So there was a stage of the process where we also sent the documentary to them, and they were like, you need to back this up, or this fact is a bit contentious and needs this caveat. They basically gave us some like, really expert historical knowledge, which was really useful.

Were the consultants budgeted for?

Yes, but it’s a community radio programme effectively so we didn’t have a huge budget. They all got £50, and I was upfront about that. I tried to keep it to an hour’s worth of work. 

You also have an advisory board for the show – tell me about that. 

On the board there are two audio producers, a historian, a 17-year-old who worked on VENT, and an artist. It was people who have a relevant stake in the material but different perspectives.

I sent them first cuts with just the script, and they gave very light touch notes that helped shape it. I also had conversations with them before we started doing any recording. That was similar in that it was ostensibly a volunteering role, but they got £60 each as a thank you.

How did you get started working in this collaborative way, and why do you like it?

I have a background of support work and community organizing, so it feels most natural to work in that way. 

The way I see it is, at this point in my life I have a specific producer’s skill set, and that’s what I bring to the table. And other people have really interesting perspectives on things, and maybe have different barriers to getting their voice out. 

It’s a very fun way to work. A lot of a producer’s work is actually on your own in your bedroom, so it’s really nice to form relationships with people. None of these episodes would have been the same if I’d presented them. Working with people broadens stuff and enriches stuff. 

Do you have any advice for producers who want to bring more co-production into their practice? 

I think it’s really good to do a good bit of thinking around why you’re interested in the story, what you’re bringing to it, what your set of identities are, and what impact that will have on the way you report it. Be really aware of what you’re bringing, what your intention is, and how that relates to the people that you’re working with.

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